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Well, this is really one of the issues to talk about, but if u have read the theory of constraints, we could see as to why it happens…as for buying a asset, we need to pay a price, same is the parallel which we can draw rearding the behaviour patterns of the man, who is a consumer of some product at each instant of his life. About the growth of world, Its about how we see it…the organic or the inorganic growth..so on one side, we have grown technologically and improved in areas like medical, communications, technology which is the asset which is being created/generated, we are simultaneously paying a price, which may not be percieved immediately, but its after effects follow like the issue you mentioned…..These are the constraints in which we operate and it applies to each and every aspect of our life..

So that is the only question all about???? may be we are paying quite an expensive price for the so called’progress and achievement’. the question is IS IT WORTH IT?

Yeah,we do price….But then we need this technological changes…let say web…i cant imagine doing banking without it…made life so easy…, but there r as some degenerating effects of web which impact a student right from start… we do need such changes, but then how do we adpat is really the point..if we are not able to adapt and consequences r negative, then probably that change may not be the worth as it seemed intially..

you are rite when you say that we cant do away with the technological changes and we need to adapt but for whom are we doing this??? for ourselves, the human beings, animals, nature ….but in the process of forging ahead we have started ignoring the realities of life…surviving in this world is a difficult thing to do….....

Surviving in any world is difficult…in olden ages, survival was more in terms of basic needs like food & shelter and also about existence….which is still the case for animals..”survial of the fittest”, but we as human beings have brought in many changes from time to time…moving from a ruler bases to democratic society had been a major change…which was very good for a common man…, but then still common man is engulfed with many problems….where i would definetly agree that when we talk of growth rates, we do ignore the realities of life..

SO DO YOU AGREE THAT WE ARE DEVELOPING ON AN ILLUSORY LEVEL AND DEGENERATING AT A REAL LEVEL?

I think the distinction here should come from the definition of “The World”.

Your discussion is of the world as a general sort of place. But I don’t see it that way.

I believe the only world that matters is my world, which includes my immediate surroundings as well as everything else I know or can think of. This definition of the world cannot be degrading, it can only expand as I learn more and move forwards in life.

From what I understand from the way you see it, with greed and problems etc. the world is degrading. In my opinion, the more we do and learn and the more we try, even if we make mistakes along the way (as long as we learn from these mistakes) and even if the immediate situation we’re in isn’t very fun, our own private world is still always expanding and progressing somewhere. I don’t know if it’s going somewhere good, but I can hope….

it is not about complaining but looking at the world from a higher perspective…. as we get better…. what is getting better??? the platitudes of getting better is challenged by its own self….we are undercutting the aspect of coming out as evolved species…....

IS THE WORLD PROGRESSING OR DEGENERATING?

Yes its degenerating, We are Destroying the World to Save It. Each day we try to make Our Home (Read Earth) a better place to live in with the expense of destroying nature.

“Humanity is sitting on a ticking time bomb. If the vast majority of the world’s scientists are right, we have just ten years to avert a major catastrophe that could send our entire planet into a tail-spin of epic destruction involving extreme weather, floods, droughts, epidemics and killer heat waves beyond anything we have ever experienced.” Check here “http://www.climatecrisis.net/aboutthefilm/”

Watch the DVD if possible.

Just visiting another forum will not help, i think so. We need to act. ACT? Start from home.

Hello das3d.
I would have to agree with your main point there- it’s economy vs. home planet. Sure it is. I can tell you I rather spend my $5 today on buying myself lunch than send it to a save the world foundation. What do I care, right?
But at the same time, unlike years ago, people now know the problems. I can tell temperatures are rising and that we’re getting some crazy natural disasters all around. So physically, the world is degrading. But since we know better now and some people are taking actions to stop this, even if it’s as small as riding bike to work instead driving, I think it still puts us in a better position than we were 10 years ago when nobody knew anything. And knowing and acting is a form of progress.
We’re not the ones who caused this, it’s our parents and grandparents that polluted the ozone. But we’re the ones that now know what not to do, and although we don’t have a great solution to fix everything yet, there’s a chance we can at least make it stop. And that’s progress.

About your modified foods point- I have to disagree. Modifying foods is our only way to combat the natural problems we caused. Without it, the world would have long ago run out of bananas and other fruits we can now still enjoy, and all year long. And the chemicals have been tested more thoroughly than regular natural fruits have, so they are very unlikely to have any effects.

Putting that aside, yes, you’re right. Currently it’s economy over the Earth. But why is that necessarily a bad thing? Without a solid economy there would be no money for the highly expensive research that now forms the only way we can save ourselves. The richest people in the world contribute money for these green causes and environmental awareness. The US government may not be doing its part when it comes to stopping pollution, but it’s helping homeless people survive on the street every day, through taxpayers’ money. So I claim that without investing in our economy, who knows where we would be right now? Our situation could have been much worse, and as proof I suggest you take a look at the countries of the world whose economy have never been very good.

Money is important, and together with the knowledge we now have from past mistakes it can now help us improve the world, or at least bring it around back to an ok state. I call that a good thing.

I realize I’m not going to be able to convince anyone about this, it’s really a matter of personal opinions.

I just sincerely believe that while yes, we can easily say the world around us is degenerating and becoming worse and worse every minute, it’s a better use of our time to be happy with what we do have and try to make the most out of it. If the world is going to be gone in 10 years anyway, what’s the point of doing anything? It’s important to stay positive.

Yes, I think the world’s societies are crumbling. I see the underprivileged growing in numbers. My present government (US) manipulates economies to the detriment of a growing underclass.

I see this conversation is geared to global warming, extinction, genetic manipulation. I always find it fascinating that we focus on the things around us, but not the people. We want to protect endangered animals, but as a species, we don’t protect our children. No doubt, we need to address global warming, protect endangered species, and continue research into the benefits (or ills) of genetically manipulated foods, products, and procedures for our health.

The progress and worth of any society is how the society cares for those less fortunate. Everything we do affects people everywhere, in every country. A short sighted view and isolationism is no longer appropriate. The world is getting smaller. Your country is my country. My country is your country. My society is your society; your society is mine. Every action does, indeed, have a reaction. Governments need to (must) consider how policies affect those around the world.

At times, we may need to make a decision that is not necessarily to our immediate benefit, but presents a benefit to others who need assistance around the globe. It is a necessity to consider those not in my immediate world. We need to speak for and protect those that are not able to do so for themselves. Carelessness and self-indulgence will continue to weaken our world.

When I began reading this thread, I was reminded of a poem written shortly after the Holocaust. I think the poem was written by Martin Niemoeller.

First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a communist; Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a socialist; Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist; Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— because I was not a Jew; Then they came for me— and there was no one left to speak out for me.

@rkotay- I agree with your point. It’s important to look at the people factor, and what we do or don’t do for them.

But there have always been, and always will be, people living in poverty and in miserable conditions. I believe that at the moment, we’re doing a lot for them, more than it seems. Most people are unaware of the extent government funds relief shelters and aid organizations and of the amount of volunteers out there. And sure, we can do a lot more, and if we didn’t use money for certain purposes we could help the underprivileged more than we do now, but we still do something.

Moreover, think of all the people out there suffering from diseases, and every day we’re getting closer to fix those through research and technological progress. Today our medical systems (I’m Canadian, so maybe my opinions are a bit different here), to me they seem better than they were. Lifespan is on the rise, and maybe some day somebody will manage to distribute medicine in poorer nations. I think we’re getting closer to that every day.

So yes, the human factor is an important thing, but I don’t think the situation is as bad as it may seem. We just need to stop talking and if each of us those their part for the community, we’ll get somewhere better.

oLahav, Yes, I do agree with you that we do something for those less fortunate, or those living in poverty. I never traveled outside the US (going to the Ukraine in a couple of weeks; I’m excited about that) , so I create my views from what I see and what I read.

I see more people every day with the attitude—I have mine, too bad for you. Go get your own. In some cases, this is appropriate. There is always a small number of people that will abuse any system. For the greater part, however, people receiving assistance, need assistance. Too many people, because they fear a few will get something they don’t deserve, want to deny those that have true need.

I believe that the US is in decline. Our life expectancy has lessened. Our infant mortality rate is in decline. Education in our inner-cities is very poor. I see the number of my students (middle school) who can’t identify a subject or verb, or can’t mentally do any math (add, subtract, multiply, or divide), continue to grow.

Our health system is EXPENSIVE. If you don’t have insurance, you’re in dire straits. I do have medical insurance. There’s one orthopedic hand specialist that my insurance will pay for me to see in all of Kansas City. I’ve been trying to contact this Dr. for a little over three months (so I can play my guitar again). He must have crawled under a rock or something, because neither he or his office will return my calls. A very neat and tidy way for my insurance company to keep down their costs.

Yes, there is a lot to be thankful for. I usually don’t complain, and believe it or not, am known for my very positive attitude. The research and technological progress for treatment of diseases is fantastic.. I don’t search for or desire a utopia. I do get a little riled when decisions made by our politicians seem to be void of any consideration for those that need—here and abroad.

rkotay, I have to say I completely agree with your comment, especially the second paragraph. There are too many people who think that way… I wish there was something we can about it, but there isn’t, that’s the prevalent attitude in some places.

About the health system comment- I had no idea the US works so badly. Here in Canada there’s a shortage of doctors, and some specialists are very hard to find, but you can get help if you need some. I guess it makes a huge difference I didn’t really think about too deeply before… Education is the same way. I guess since I’m in studying math at university now it’s hard to think of those people who can’t multiply without a calculator.

It seems like it all depends on the point of view… as you said, we all base out views on what we see and experience, and we all see different things around us.